Cleat-wise hitching

[Brion Toss]

Hello all,

This one has the potential to be an endless thread, like the one that Dan linked us to. My take is that most of the people who posted over there were doing what worked for them, but I didn't hear any compelling analysis about the details. As it happens we've just completed a video on basic knots, including belays, and I come out in favor of a hitch at the end, ASSUMING that the first turn is jam-proof, and that a sufficiency of figure 8's are applied that no load can come onto the hitch, so it can't jam. I add that hitch, at least to long-term belays, because I have seen unsecured ends get knocked or washed off; seems like cheap insurance. For short-term belays, as in sheets under way, I generally don't bother. I like to think that my preferences are based on the behavior of the rope on the belay, not on how many of what size boats I've sailed on, or whether the Royal Yachting Association approves.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss

[seawolf]

Good evening all. I do not have anything to add to this thread, but this is my first correspondence on spartalk, and I was unable to find how to post a new thread, so I thought I would reply to this one for some instruction. Like my autopilot Corrigan, I need a little direction sometimes.
Thanks.
Seawolf

[Bob Pingel]

There is a button above and below the message postings on the main page with the title "New Thread". This button will start on new topic (thread).

Bob Pingel

[seawolf]

Thanks Bob!

[jeffbonny]

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

I add that hitch, at least to long-term belays, because I have seen unsecured ends get knocked or washed off; seems like cheap insurance. For short-term belays, as in sheets under way, I generally don't bother. I like to think that my preferences are based on the behavior of the rope on the belay, not on how many of what size boats I've sailed on, or whether the Royal Yachting Association approves.

Thank you for confirming my initial reaction Brion..."cheap insurance". It falls in line with the attitude I live by that if you expect the worst and prepare for it the worst rarely bites you in the ass.
Set the first wrap nicely and the lock probably won't see enough load to jam.
Carry a spike and a jammed knot starts to seem just slightly less an ordeal than loosing a working line.

Jeff Bonny

[Dan Lehman]

Originally Posted by Brion Toss

This one has the potential to be an endless thread, like the one that Dan linked us to. My take is that most of the people who posted over there were doing what worked for them, but I didn't hear any compelling analysis about the details.

Sadly, what is typical of most of such endless threads is that people aren't good at
paying attention to details and making sound arguments. Helpful points in this thread
are the materials (relative cleat size & nature of cordage) and the purpose (active
sailing vs. mooring--which was the OP's question, quickly forgotten by some).
A couple posters there did raise a good point which got no answer: if the problem
with the locking hitch is that it will be prone to jam tight, how would its absence
be at all beneficial? (The converse, of a locking hitch being superfluous, has a
good response from Brion--there are who-knows-what things that might intiate some
loosening.)

But a key difference of this "OX..." is the "O": from a comment mid-stream of that
thread comes confirmation(?) that what is often recommended, and is in Apprentice
is what would be logically called a "C". I.e., that the symbolized sequence of
structures building the hitch, ALL return to the initial contact point (call it point A).
--that the "O" is a full circle, under from the initial pull under the far cleat ear all
the away around BACK TO IT, & under for then the "X"s. Whereas what I've seen
is under far, under near, AND THEN into an X, which will finish with the locked end
being aligned more or less with the loaded part but locked to the other ear.
I've not been able to find this RYA method put into images (and then there must
be the question of the accuracy of such images to intent!); in fact, I've gotten
no Search results on the RYA site for 'OXO', and few for knots. (But one quote,
re RYA instruction, of interest:

Missing from all contemporary courses is rope work, bends,hitches and splices, I've lost count of how many fender and mooring lines I have spliced for "modern" skippers, many of whom are "qualified" but at least they have a desire to make their craft look like boats!

)

--dl*
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